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Yes, most of us eventually plan to move on to the airlines. Army Aviation Leaders should. We are very, very interested in seeing more applications, he added. 10 U.S. Code 2114: Graduates of the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences incur an ADSO of at least 7 years. The root cause cited by those transitioning at various levels has related to toxic climates, mismanagement of professional profiles, quality of life, and unit culture. Clear editor. ADSO stands for Active Duty Service Obligation. Im in shape, arguably intelligent, and have at least ten good years of service left in me yet an age waiver will not be considered for aviation for either OCS or WOCS. This puts you right at your commissioning ADSO plus the three-year CSP ADSO. Hah right. and our Expect bonuses to disappear as well. (USASOC) Commissioned and warrant officers who enter flight training starting in October will incur a 10-year service obligation once they become rated Army aviator s, according to guidance. If youre worried about frequent moves disrupting your family life, picking a community with few basing locations is a viable option for Active Duty. I feel that part of the problem is that the Army assessed too many senior NCOs into flight school, which helped get them into this box that they are in. These cadets may not be willing to forgo an extra four years of civilian work experience to serve as aviation officers. It never ends. , you must start on Active Duty. However, many of my buddies werent sure yet if they were willing to commit to a decade of service in exchange for a pilot slot. In regards to our flight school length, the AF and Navy actually won't recognize our flight school as a valid flight school for earning wings if we try to branch transfer as part of it which I do find amusing. What I would propose is to change the flight school is conducted to make it cheaper and make it easier to increase throughput. Whatever path you end up taking, please consider taking a UPT slot when offered. Must be a volunteer just like airborne. Yes, they will retain aviators when the quality of life increases for aviation, not just grinding us into the ground until a new command comes along every 12-18 months and does it all over again. We dont have good measurements out there right now to tell us why an aviator is getting out of the force. Without useful data, the Army cannot implement targeted retention solutions. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. With a 10 year ADSO and an 8 year max time in service requirementit significantly reduces the in house pool as well. I would have stayed in for another 10+ years if I had the opportunity to revert to Warrant Officer and fly more, but that opportunity doesn't exist. So the recruitment piece has not historically been our challenge, it has been capacity and production. But what if the new ADSO invalidates this assumption? There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. Once Stan finally gets qualified in his aircraft, hed get seasoning orders with his Guard or Reserve unit. Gen. McCurry also said, People still want to fly. Such changes may affect my status, Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. We need people with your background, dedication and professionalism in the warrant officer cohort. I dont know if there are enough of us to completely change policy, but you need pilots and Im willing to fly for whatever period is demanded of me Im not the only one. Army is trying to get payback for their costs, but that will be increasingly hard to do if airlines are hiring. If you havent already read, Welcome back to Part 2 of our series about career progression for Air Force pilots, from the pilot perspective. June 5, 2020 in General Military Helicopter Discussions. Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. Hed still have to go through steps 2-5 from the Active Duty pilot career path above! The change comes as the cost and requirements for aircraft have increased across the board, Kearns said. The answer is clear. This eventually allows you to retire a full four years earlier than any other military aviator. I bet less than 400 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. It only increases your overall training costs because typically you have less time available to retain these people. Additionally, because of rules that the Federal Aviation Administration has put into place over the last decade that make hiring civilian pilots difficult, many regional airlines have created rotary-wing transition programs that substantially ease the transition for Army helicopter pilots. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in '47.) Whether you elect the Branch of Choice or Graduate School Program, there are slight differences to your commitment for those who branch Aviation. However, he missed out on that Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path and is concerned about a 10-year UPT ADSC. This is anecdotal, of course, but nowadays there is no appreciable down time. All in all, this track has the potential for less family stability than his Active Duty pilot counterparts. If hed gone to UPT right after college, its more likely that hed get a lot of his deploying done before his kids were that old, or even before they were all born. Again, 70 percent of Army pilots are warrant officers, while Air Force pilots are all officers. And finally, the Army will likely find that it should increase flight pay beyond what has already been offered. Look down many of us are after something a little more challenging than the admin tasks of a 1SG or CSM. If the Army rescinds this ADSO and reverts to the original six-year obligation, it will have six years to develop solutions to increase retention. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Below are the commissioning ADSOs by source of commission: ROTC Non-Scholars have a 3-year commissioning ADSO. Were you planning on doing it for less than 10 years?, His answer was, Of course not. I'm very healthy and fit, I would like to fly helicopters. Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy recently signed a memorandum that increased the ADSOor active duty service obligationfor Army pilots. Your link has been automatically embedded. Theres a two word solution to this, age waiver. It also left plenty of time to have a normal life and spend time with one's family. Check this post out on Reddit:https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. 10 year ADSO started FY21. Expect to get yelled at for shit you have no control over. More money for tents and rifles, I suppose. The Graduate School Option (GRADSO) portion of the CSP program continues to be suspended since YG2014 pending officer corps reshaping efforts. So Army. Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. The Modern War Institute does not screen articles to fit a particular editorial agenda, nor endorse or advocate material that is published. Not sure. Hopefully it is dependent on start date and not graduation date. Well see that the Active Duty option is still a good deal, that the overall difference isnt so great, and well see why youre better off pursuing either than trying to fulfill a non-pilot commissioning commitment before trying to pursue the Ultimate career path. Ideally, hed also earn his Instrument Rating, and build as much experience as possible. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. Yes, that is 11 combat stripes. army aviation 10 year adso. Press J to jump to the feed. Reading this in Jan 21, after 10 months of pandemic lockdown. Army, Coast Guard . This can exceed a 6 year obligation. Believe it or not, more than a few fellow senior non rated Army officers are jealous when it comes to flight pay. im hopeful the army can fix this problem ASAP. That is completely and totally gone. I'm retiring in two years and it's not even to go to the airlines! But Im a guard guy so RTAG is at the end of hooker advanced airframe for me theyll be hiring, all my airline buddies said everything is ramping back up. During this time, Stan would at least need to obtain his Private Pilot Certificate. Aviators selected for DH can expect an accompanied increase in flight pay from $650/month to $1,000/month at 10 years of aviation service (YAS) . Hed probably get 2-3 years at that assignment, but if he did a good job the Air Force would offer him the chance to get a Masters Degree through the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT) at Wright Patterson AFB. I just want to stop leaving my family all the time! His answer was, Of course not. You incura 6-year ADSO for completing WOBC and also for completing Initial flight training. The future of Army aviation depends on retaining the pilots in whom it invests so much. In order to figure out the pros and cons of these different options, we first need to compare the timelines side by side. That's not what I am talking about. Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. There's a regulation whose number I can't recall at the moment that specifies when it starts. We want as many applications as we can, so if anybody has any questions, be sure to contact that warrant officer recruiting team, Kearns said. It involves no effort to understand the underlying factors that cause Army pilots to depart and is nothing more than a surface-level solution to a fundamental problem. One year dedicated to reset, one to training, one to deployment. Cadets, who have not experienced the Army for even one day as an officer, are now asked to commit up to eleven years for the opportunity to fly for six yearsif they are luckywhile spending the rest of that time on staff, in professional military education, or in broadening assignments. Yes, , and its important to get there as quickly as you can because, . Posted in these groups: Pilot Officers Warrant Officers At first, his idea sounded reasonable to me. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. A large number of aviation personnel have a lot of passion and dedication to the mission, but that can only last so long when your life consists ONLY of the mission. However, if you missed that boat youre far better off taking an Active Duty UPT slot than trying Stans way and doing 5 years as in a non-flying job. These could range from 6 months to two years, depending on the type of aircraft hes flying. I crushed the SIFT, passed my flight physical, have a great OML standing, etc., so I should have a good chance of getting my top pick. After AFIT, Stan would owe a payback for school and might have to serve longer than his 5-year non-pilot ADSC. Its a lot to ask. Although its less common to get more than 6-12 months of your ADSC forgiven under this program, that still gets you off Active Duty sooner than expected. If you love the flying youre doing, and you have a squadron of good people, any assignment can be a great experience, no matter how busy you are. This is both expensive and time-consumingtough to fit in around a 9-5 as an engineer, especially if he has a family. They run concurrently, butthe latter takes precedence, so your 6 (or 10) year ADSO begins the date you graduate Flight School. A RAND Corporation studyfound that even $35,000 a year would not be sufficient to stem the flow of Air Force pilotsthe study concluded a bonus cap between $38,500 and $62,500 would be necessary to make a meaningful impact. The OPTEMPO is higher now than it was at the height of GWOT. I'd love to see credit for the photo. Regarding the future Army Commissioned Lts in wishing to branch aviation, that will be an issue next year. The AvB is essential to retain Officers with an Army aeronautical rating, who are critical to the overall success of the Army's mission. Lets compare these options to see why. What is the real answer? No products in the cart. Soldiers pilot a CH-47 Chinook helicopter during a training flight over the city of Erbil in the Kurdistan Region of Iraq, May 23, 2020. Im a turd for putting 2021. Many aviators got tripped up by it in the last few years in the push to get to the airlines. Anyone who does a modicum of research will quickly discover that our aviation culture is objectively inferior to the other services. I have done more CTC rotations and in general "useless bs" since being aviation than I ever did infantry. Back To Top Now that Im older and wiser, one of my many side-hustles is working as an Admission Liaison Officer for the USAF Academy. West Point graduates have a 5 year commissioning ADSO. Im scheduled to graduate, 1st or 2nd week of September. To create a mission-ready helicopter pilot, the Army invests between six hundred thousand and one million dollars during approximately one year of flight training. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can . Like it or not, you need to accrue that experience one way or another, First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. Required fields are marked *. F-35s in feature image: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/3982524/f-35-sky. That was the last straw for several senior pilots in my battalion and the majority of them retired after/because of that deployment when they had intended to stay in for at least a few more years. Aviation has always been a highly desirable branch, and gaining a slot has been a matter of performance or differentiation from peers (whether OML or via a competitive application process). Sometimes that's necessary, but there's got to be some balance. My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! I transitioned from infantry to aviation and have had off-and-on heartache with it ever since. Weve seen, If youre headed to pilot training, you absolutely must read our 3-part series on Winning UPT. SUPERSEDED AR 600-8-29, 02/25/2005; SUPERSEDED ARMY DIR 2019-30, 10/01/2019: Footnotes: https://armypubs.army.mil 03-APPLICABLE TO ARNG UNITS: Security Classification : UNCLASSIFIED: Dist Restriction Code : A APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE; DISTRIBUTION IS UNLIMITED: Changes Instead of giving bonuses of several hundred thousand dollars to keep pilots like our Air Force brethren get, the Army decides the best course of action is to just make it mandatory 10 years like them but not receive the pay. Think they will pay the bonuses and flight pay like the other branches? Before people get started on the, this is the way the Army goes and all that, I know. C-17 formation from the ramp: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school inFY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. What if you transfer from being an officer with 8 years of service (including enlisted time) to being warrant aviation? Though I agree that there is a retention problem, especially within aviation, I'm not sure the Army is focused on the right issue here. With survey data in hand, the Army will likely find that it needs to continue to invest in its aircraft fleet to ensure pilots receive adequate flight hours to remain proficient. These investments set the Army apart from all the branches, he said. Stan was worried about his Active Duty career path (Option #2) because it would ensure several years of moves and deployments. pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the People tend to forget, aportion of the street2seat WOFT applicants areprior service. change without notice to me. For most, Top Gun played at least a little bit of a role. In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and getting kicked to the curb as a furlough. Do that and fix quality of life issues. No one knows somehow, my S1 doesnt know either. This! Finally, the thing not being said about sending senior NCOs to flight school is the socialization at the company level piece. If you, the seasoned army aviator, were still a senior in college and told that to become an aviator you had to sign for a 10-year + flight school ADSO, would you do it? Looks like I'll be doing 10 years insteaddang. I am planning on staying in anyway but that 10 year also looms big if everything sucks and you hate it. If you go to a civilian school and the Army fully or partially funds that course, you will incur 3 times the school time for ADSO if the course is over 60 days. However, after spending a few more minutes thinking about how these career paths might compare, I decided Stans idea might not be as advantageous after all. Over the last few years, Army senior leaders took steps to address the pilot retention challenge. ROTC Scholars have a 4-year commissioning ADSO. There's the technical expertise that goes along with it as well. That's the Army's ace in the hole. From this mid-grade officer's perspective this constant obsession with readiness is actually detrimental to readiness. If retention suffers too much, the Army will face a pilot production shortfall that will add to the existing shortage. 2-4 more moves for assignments during his Active Duty career. Sounds great! Posted on . In the same discussion about retention data, Brig. All of military aviation is what you make of it. Although busy, it left plenty of downtime for people to have actual lives. My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then? That's the Army's ace in the hole. The pilot shortage is not in applicants it is in mid career. The pay raise was the first in two decades to help balance pilot numbers at all ranks and stay competitive with the civilian market. I've been in the Army for a long time, and it's never been worse than now. This 10 year commitment will definitely dissuade him from the Army. Gen. Michael McCurry, the director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7,who said in September, One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall? The policy also applies to Army Reserve and National Guard components, but their obligated service will remain part-time, he said. Having been out of college for at least 5 years at the start of UPT, its more likely that Stan will have a spouse and kidsmaking the very busy year at UPT even more challenging. Other branches have had 10 year ADSOs for a long time. These figures do not include initial trainingthey solely account for the time and cost associated with the platform-specific training. When I got selected it was a 60/40 split between street to seat and prior. There will always be external factors and organizations that draw quality talent from the Army, but the Army should have more flexibility in their ability and measures to retain quality talent. Not difficult for the Army in finding 300 additional NCOs for the WOFT program if need be. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the. Suddenly, Active Duty isnt looking that bad, right? This used to be unheard of. Also, it ap-plies to the Regular Army and Reserve Component officers (Army National Guard and U.S. Army Reserve) ordered into aviation service by the Secretary of the Army and applies to all commissioned and warrant officers who are training for or have Army aeronautical ratings. United States, and the U.S. Army Re-serve, unless otherwise stated. It's not exactly friendly but this is the military. The upper age limit to enter flight training is established in law and requires Congressional action. No. Serving on Active Duty is also the only way to get an overseas flying assignment. Within the company we tried to level out flight time to give the senior guys some rest, but the battalion/brigade leadership was too risk averse and pushed back. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. And yet, theres a certain logic to questioning that 10-year commitment. Deployed Civil Engineers https://www.dvidshub.net/image/491088/deployed-civil-engineers. Think about approving some ETPs. After all, it is the warrant officer exodus to the airlines that has driven the Armys pilot retention focus. army aviation 10 year adso. Back in the 1950s, the Army ask for a waiver in not paying flight pay for its pilots. Press J to jump to the feed. Then it gets worse: Over the past 19 years, an Active Duty pilot has also been likely to spend half or more of those operational assignments deployed. This used to be unheard of. As several others have said, this policy fails to address the root problems high OPTEMPO, poor quality of life, irrelevant mandatory training, etc. Even just a year or two of delay erases any possible advantages of this career path. Army Aviation Leaders should. I think that mindser still exists. Those serving on active duty for less than 10 years shall serve in the Ready Reserve as follows: For active duty service less than 8 years, 6 years in the Ready Reserve. It is the cheapest method for increasing retention rates, delivers a long-term investment in human capital, and provides a more predictable model for pilot production requirements. | Army Organic Industrial Base Modernization Implementation Plan, Army Civil Works announces publication of a formal review for Nationwide Permit 12, Army Extends Timeline for Postpartum Soldiers to Meet Body Fat Standards, U.S. Army updates promotion and retention policies in response to COVID-19. Pasted as rich text. 10 year ADSO is official 78 212 212 comments Best Add a Comment awestm11 3 yr. ago "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. They just can't have over 8 years TIS without a waiver. I would never have signed a 10 year ADSO for army aviation. The USMA/ROTC graduating cadets will make the decision on the 12 year commitment in 2021. On this career path, Stan is most likely to leave young kids at home with his spouse while he deploys. The increased ADSO shows that senior leaders fundamentally do not understand the issues, and it will do nothing to address the attrition as the years go on. 9 month rotations are followed by field time, followed by gunnery, followed by EIB, followed by a CTC, etc. It is extremely frustrating to see some officers and senior NCOS make such short sighted decisions to solve complex issues without finding the cause, and not conducting any type of research. So here I am, considering branching aviation when all of a sudden.BAM! Time will tell. People tend to forget, aportion of street to seat WOFT applicants areprior service. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Currently in common core here and we still don't know if it applies or not. However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty. Another anecdote, when I was deployed there was a desire to have experienced cockpits on higher risk/higher visibility missions usually two pilots with 1000+ total hours. With 21 years as a Soldier and 10 years reviewing cost estimates for all equipment tests, Mr. Ysa Garza said everyone always has to be safety conscience in his role as an additional duty safety . In congressional testimony it was stated that at that time (2019) around 40% of the pilot population was within 3 years of being retirement eligible. You make an excellent point..I'm a twice retired CW4 (did a voluntary retiree recall three years after my first twenty). I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a military pilot. While a longer ADSO may help from looking solely at the numbers, it won't be effective at retaining quality talent. There's definitely a balance issue, and I suppose the grass is always greener on the other side. Glad I retired when I did. Plus, you will also be earning full GI Bill benefits AT THE SAME TIME. Full disclosure, I was a street to seat Warrant that served for 24 years. So got word that it only affects WOs that complete WOCS after 1 Oct 2020. It will give you a recruiting advantage because a person out of high school or a year of college could position themselves for later on in life. The U.S. Army Aviation Center Survival Escape Resistance and Evasion (SERE-C) course. Just sign away your life until you're 34!". When discussing any big-picture career options, I always make sure to follow Simon Sineks advice and Start With Why. Then 10 year service obligation put me right at 20 so Im not too worried about that. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. Also new is that time in grade for WOs doesn't start until you graduate flight school. The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. However, we have to look at more than just the number of years involved. COVID has taken care of the airline hiring problem for the next three to five years, making the issueance of an increased ADSO redundant. Furthermore, the Army should implement quality of life and quality of service surveys for every pilot who remains. Were looking at troops selected for flight training in the fiscal year 2021 and beyond.. NG will have 10 years. This is the amount of time that an officer must serve on active duty. For the next decade of your life, you will deploy a lot and have little or no control over your assignment locations. Another disparity is the pay inequality between the militarys pilots. I don't want to mess with my retirement, but would love a chance to fly for my country. I just signed my WOFT contract at MEPS on Thursday with the idea of a 6 year ADSO. However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty UPT slot in hopes of possibly getting a Guard or Reserve slot 5 years from now. The Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is to get hired directly by a Guard or Reserve unit and let them send you to UPT. In the report provided to Congress, however, increasing the service obligation was not mentioned as a possible solution to pilot retention shortfalls. The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. Very true. The new policy doesnt include Soldiers currently in training, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 William S. Kearns, aviation and officer policy integrator for the Armys G-1 office. You must understand, the Army has an ace in the hole when filling the Warrant Officer aviation pipeline. The Army will continue to honor all GRADSO contracts for officers from YGs 2006-2013. Our nation needs brave men and women willing to use Air Power to murder our enemies and break their shit. While its not impossible, and BogiDope can absolutely help you get there, this is far from guaranteed. Typical Army of not addressing the real issues. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Army's initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. The Army has more career Enlisted willing to cross over for the opportunity in being an Officer and increasein pay for the family, with or without a degree. Id always wanted to be a pilot and didnt know anything else, so I said the Doolie equivalent of Shut up and take my money! (There was a lot more Sir and Maam involved.) Its creepy; Im scared Ill go to get out and theyll be like nah man you have 3 more years. How can I show that my BrADSO wasnt taken? Some of the impacts may have directly affected [Soldiers] ability to pursue [their] goals of working for the commercial sector, especially the airlines.. Note: The waiver authority for this requirement is the Commanding General, U.S. Army Aviation Center, Fort Rucker, AL 36362-5000. . Aviation Warrant Officers have a 10-year service commitment after completing Warrant Officer Flight School. Display as a link instead, The Army increased monthly pilot pay from a maximum of $850 per month to $1000 per month, offered $35,000 annual bonuses to qualified warrant officers who extend for three years, and reduced combined training center rotations to two per twelve-month period for each combat aviation brigade.